Properties of elysons and of the elysium

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />Theoretical and empirical studies point to transverse body waves as the thing we call light. As Tom points out there are some who see evidence for a longitudinal "component" of light. In siesmology, surface waves (especially Rayliegh waves) are in fact a combination of longitudinal and transverse vibrations. Rayliegh waves are the slowest of the four wave types and they are dispersive, meaning that wave speed is a function of wave length. (Light is not dispersive in vacuuo, and neither are body waves.) The amplitude of surface waves drops sharply as you move away from the surface, so they truely are a surface phenomenon.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Since elysium is a continuous medium, I don't see how surface waves are relevant. Transverse waves are <b>inherently</b> inefficient even in mediums where they propagate well. In addition, transverse waves generally only propagate well over a narrow frequency in a given medium. I just don't see how the idea that light as transverse waves in vacuuo can be squared with what else we assume that we know about the nature of light.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Longitudinal body waves ought to exist in elysium, but most likely as a separate phenomenon in the same way that they are a separate phenomenon within Earth. But if they do exist in elysium they ought to be fairly easy to detect. And they ought to propagate about 2X faster than light (transverse waves) if the same speed relationship exists in elysium as in rock.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This assumes that light is not longitudinal waves, in which case transverse waves would be maybe .5c and diminish in amplitude very quickly.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Inter-particle repulsion does seem to be an important part of the picture. It's cool that someone else sees the importance of this.

Atoms in a normal matter solid are held together by the existence of inter-particle attraction, but they are also kept apart by inter-particle repulsion. At some distance a balance is reached and equilibrium sets in.

Elysons in elysium are held together by ... but I'm getting ahead of myself. Details are comming in a soon to be posted message, but the short version is that elysons reach an equilibrium distance from each other as well. And while they can move relative to each other (for example if some have been entrained by a moving bit of normal matter), they normally do not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I believe medium particles at equilibrium due to repulsion may have inherently different wave properties than attractive particle mediums. Or to put it another way a repulsive particle medium and an attractive particle medium with similar wave properties may have significantly different properties of density, temperature, etc. I'm still thinking about what those differences might be in general terms.

JR

An attractive particle medium? Do you have an example? (I guess the interior of a neutron star would fit this description.)

Normal matter is a medium with particles (atoms) that exhibit both attraction and repulsion in each particle. (This is also the only sort of medium with which we have any real experience.) The combined action of these forces causes matter to have a wide range of physical properties. Some atoms stick together quite forcefully and form multi-particle structures, others don't. Some create large structures that reflect light, and others that allow light to pass with little impediment. Etc.

My model expects that elysium comprises repulsive particles only. Since every particle looks like every other particle I do not expect to see elysons behaving like atoms, in the sense of forming compounds or aggregating into multi-particle structures. Every one of them wants to get as far away from every other one of them as it possibly can. It might even be impossible to get two of them to come into contact.

Regards,
LB

The only relevance of surface waves is as a real world example of how a combination longitudinal/transverse wave has been observed to behave. And of the types of media in which they have and have not been observed to exist.

Body waves seem to be what we want to focus on.

LB

[JR] "I just don't see how the idea that light as transverse waves in vacuuo can be squared with what else we assume that we know about the nature of light."

I guess the most telling bit of experimental evidence I have would be the effect of EM waves on electrons in matter that is electrically conductive. From the world of electrical engineering (my speciality):

A radio wave is transmitted from point A to point B. Assume that A and B are far appart so that the transmitter at A can be treated as a point source and the radio waves at B can be treated as plane waves. These are standard simplifying assumptions and work well in actual practice. If you work very close to a radio transmitter things start to get complex because you have to compute the contribution of each and every electron at its specific location. Too much like work.

At B a wire is monitored for current flow. If the wire is oriented so that it is parallel to a line from A to B, no current is detected. If the wire is oriented so that it is perpendicular to the line from A to B, current is detected and that current moves back and forth at the frequency of the transmitter at A.

The force being exerted on the electrons at B by the transmitter at A is obviously transverse to the propagation vector of the wave. It seems difficult to get that behavior with longitudinal waves.

LB

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[JR] "I just don't see how the idea that light as transverse waves in vacuuo can be squared with what else we assume that we know about the nature of light."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">And it would be especially difficult to explain polarization without transverse waves, because it has no counterpart in longitudinal waves. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />An attractive particle medium? Do you have an example? (I guess the interior of a neutron star would fit this description.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sorry for not being clear about what I was talking about. What I mean by attractive particles are those that experience a net attractive force when they are separated by some distance and then experience an equal or net repulsive force at some smaller distance such that any two particles will reach a stable equilibrium separation without the influence of some other external force. In contrast, two particles that are repulsive will never reach an equilibrium distance but will try to increase their separation until an external force stops them or the limit of the repulsive force is reached.

I believe that the wave characteristics of attractive and repulsive particle mediums are different due to the different inter-particle forces at work and we need to be extra careful when we try to extrapolate the wave properties of elysium using our experience with materials composed of attractive particles like water, metals or magma.

JR