Properties of elysons and of the elysium

Don,

I know from another thread that you have some pretty definite ideas about how individual elysons are constructed and what the properties of individual elysons might be as a result of that construction. I'd like to get some feedback from you about this.

First, do you have any questions about or objections to the statements in my opening post about two of the properties of bulk elysium and the difficulty of getting both of them from the same set of properties of individual elysons?

Second (assuming we agree about the problem), do your ideas about the composition of individual elysons shed any light on how bulk elysium can have both of these properties?

===

Although I have addressed these questions to Don I'd like to hear from anyone that has some ideas about this.

LB

MM has the following expectations about atoms, protons, electrons and elysons:

*) Protons are smaller than atoms, and more dense.
*) Electrons are smaller than protons, and more dense.
*) Elysons are smaller than electrons, and more dense.

From TVF's article <i>The Structure of Matter in the Meta Model</i> in MRB vol 12 num 4, MM expects atoms (and groups of atoms large and small) to have a normal gravitational force field. But it expects a proton to have a much stronger than normal gravitational force field due to its much higher density. And it expects an electron to have an even stronger gravitational force field, again due to the density increase over protons.

But MM also expects the gravitational force field of the electron to be repulsive rather than attractive. Somewhere between the size/density of the proton and the size/density of the electron a property change causes the electron to "overheat", resulting in reflected gravitons leaving with more energy than when arriving. Enough more to tip the balance from attraction to repulsion. See the article for the details.

=== the following is not from TVF's article ===

If electrons are below the critical size/density range that results in a particle's surface gravitational force field becomming repulsive rather than attractive, then all particles smaller than electrons (but larger than gravitons, obviously) should also have very strong and repulsive surface gravity fields.

Elysons come to mind. The surface gravity field of an elyson ought to be stronger than the field of an electron, and it ought to be repulsive. For this particular property of individual elysons to exist, their internal composition should be a don't care. But the internal composition ought be important in determing the details of the force field.

LB

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />*) The first of these two behaviors seems to require that bulk elysium must be very stiff, like a solid. Only more so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Not so. Oceans carry transverse waves but are hardly "stiff". The transverse wave requirement means only that the medium must be contiguous like an ocean, not discrete like air.

I have described the action of gravitons near masses as increasing the density of elysium. Using the ocean analogy, density cannot change, but pressure does. So it is possible that only elysium pressure increases near masses, not density. I have not yet thought of a critical test that might distinguish these two possibilities. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />If electrons are below the critical size/density range that results in a particle's surface gravitational force field becomming repulsive rather than attractive, then all particles smaller than electrons (but larger than gravitons, obviously) should also have very strong and repulsive surface gravity fields.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Probably not. Gravitational shielding sets in, and gravitational fields would then be prevented from increasing further in strength at smaller scales. The same must be true for elyson density, which might be anything.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The second of these two behaviors seems to require that bulk elysium must be extremely tenuous, like smoke or a low pressure gas. Only more so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">At first, I thought so too. But Klyushin made an interesting point in a Russian paper on gravity and electrodynamics. The density of elysium might actually be quite large. Ordinary matter then consists of comparably dense elysium and a tiny overlay of slightly-denser-than-elysium matter. This matter then floats around in the elysium at modest speeds (&lt;&lt; c) propelled by the extremely fast gravitons and the concomitant forces they generate. -|Tom|-

Can this Meta-Model-predicted-property of individual elysons (a strong gravitational force field that is repulsive rather than attractive) allow bulk elysium to to have the properties of extreme stiffness and extreme tenuousness at the same time?

I believe the answer is yes. I've tried to poke holes in this for a while now, without success. But that doesn't mean it can't be sunk. Other minds always look at things in other ways. What is difficult/impossible for me to see might be the very first thing you see.

So it is time for me to ask you guys for a reality check.

===

I guess these are the questions I need help with:

1) Does anyone have questions/comments about or disagree with the problem I think exists? (Bulk elysium needs to be both <u>very</u> stiff and <u>very</u> tenuous at the same time, in order to behave the way we observe it behaving.)

2) Does anyone have questions/comments about or disagree with my extrapolation of the MM hypothesized property of strong, repulsive surface gravity to the particle we call an elyson, based on MM's expectation that elysons should be smaller and more dense than electrons?

NOTE - Over the next few posts I will present my ideas about how a strong repulsive surface gravity field for individual elysons can give bulk elysium its observed stiffness and tenuousness at the same time. The third question is a request for feedback on these future posts.

But if anyone finds a real problem in my starting point these speculations are likely to be a waste of time. I really do want to hear from you.

(Since this is the members-only section, the kids and other untrained personalities in the open section can't read or write here. Lurkers that don't want to deal with them can thus safely test the waters of on-line discussion. I was reluctant to post in the open forum when I first came here. Dr. Van Flandern patiently answered my ofline questions and encouraged me to go public. It rapidly becomes enjoyable. I might have started sooner if the members only section had been available then.)


3) Does anyone have questions/comments about or see any problems with my speculations about how strong negative surface gravity results in the observed behavior of bulk elysium?

LB

Tom,

Hmmm. I see that I may not even be able to get out of the starting gate with my ideas. That's life. However, I'm not quite ready to give up. It will take me a "few minutes" to see if I can make sense of my first thoughts about your objections.

Thank you,
LB