gravitons

EBTX

sometimes it is!!

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[North asked] 2)can/do gravitons collide into one another? if not why not?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">[Tom replied] Yes, their rms flight distance before hitting another graviton is 1-2 kpc. That is what causes galaxies to behave in a non-Newtonian way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Tom how does a graviton travel this far before colliding with another graviton - since they are literally everywhere? If my maths is right then a graviton will travel through the densities of other gravitons for 54-108 days without another colliding!

Also does these collisions in galaxies greater than 1-2 kpc create a weaker gravity there?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kingdavid</i>
<br />how does a graviton travel this far before colliding with another graviton - since they are literally everywhere?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Their number density alone does not determine their collision frequency. The main factor is their size. And gravitons are ultra tiny, typically millions of times smaller than quantum particles.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If my maths is right then a graviton will travel through the densities of other gravitons for 54-108 days without another colliding!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">My math gives a minimum of 5 seconds for one kiloparsec. But the time it travels is irrelevant to the collision probability.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also does these collisions in galaxies greater than 1-2 kpc create a weaker gravity there?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Short answer: yes. It means there is no gravity to speak of after a few kiloparsecs. The Sun stays in the Milky Way Galaxy -- not because of any attraction from the center, but because there are more stars on the center side than the anti-center side within a few kiloparsecs. The same can be said for all other stars in the Galaxy outside the central halo, which is a few kiloparsecs in diameter. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kingdavid</i>
<br />how does a graviton travel this far before colliding with another graviton - since they are literally everywhere?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Their number density alone does not determine their collision frequency. The main factor is their size. And gravitons are ultra tiny, typically millions of times smaller than quantum particles.
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After using a figure of 20 billion *c (lower limit) for graviton speed instead of my erroneus 20000*c, I also get around 5 seconds per kps. 5 seconds of time is far less damaging to a graviton collision probability than 54 days!

However, even though gravitons are so tiny - so are the other gravitons, so to each other -IMO- they have as much chance of hitting in a fraction of 5 seconds, as do the balls in a lottery machine. I must obviously be wrong in my opinion so what am I not seeing? If the density of gravitons are so immense and, so fast, then I cannot see how they can avoid each other.

David

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kingdavid</i>
<br />even though gravitons are so tiny - so are the other gravitons, so to each other -IMO- they have as much chance of hitting in a fraction of 5 seconds, as do the balls in a lottery machine. I must obviously be wrong in my opinion so what am I not seeing? If the density of gravitons are so immense and, so fast, then I cannot see how they can avoid each other.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The number density is great to us, but not to gravitons. Relative to a graviton's own diameter, other gravitons are as far away from each other as other stars in the Galaxy appear to be far away to us.

Put another way, the number desnity of gravitons is high, but their spatial density is extremely low because their size is so small, and there is enough empty space between any two gravitons to store an extremely large number of gravitons. Our intuitions simply fail to appreciate how empty most space is. For example, it is a fact that there is enough empty space in a sphere just enclosing the orbit of Pluto to store all 200 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy without touching. And there is enough empty space inside the Oort cloud to store all the stars in all the galaxies in the visible universe without overlap. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[Tom]The number density is great to us, but not to gravitons. Relative to a graviton's own diameter, other gravitons are as far away from each other as other stars in the Galaxy appear to be far away to us.

Put another way, the number desnity of gravitons is high, but their spatial density is extremely low because their size is so small, and there is enough empty space between any two gravitons to store an extremely large number of gravitons.
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So the spatial difference between two gravitons is something like the distance between two stars(ours and another) and, an atom is hit by many different gravitons at once(without them hitting one another)?

Then if that is correct they truly are tiny. I dont know the dimensions but, in the above scenario the atom must be the equivalent of the visible universe, where a graviton is the size of a planet?!?

Also it seems like the old addage "as above so below" seems to fit with this model -fractal or holographic type structure?

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[Tom]Our intuitions simply fail to appreciate how empty most space is. For example, it is a fact that there is enough empty space in a sphere just enclosing the orbit of Pluto to store all 200 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy without touching. And there is enough empty space inside the Oort cloud to store all the stars in all the galaxies in the visible universe without overlap.
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Amazing to think about.