The entropy of systems

Phil, I used the assumption of the universe as a closed system because that is the standard in science. Mark

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />The second law applies to heat and heat is not energy. Thats where all the confusion comes from. By assuming heat is energy you get it wrong every time.
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Hello Jim,

I found this definition for "heat" on the web (which I agree only partly):

"Heat is energy. Usually we think of heat as the fraction of the total energy possessed by a particle that can easily be given to another particle in a collision.

The thing is: these definitions talk only of heat TRANSFER.

Could there be a scenario where heat would increase continually ?
I think yes.

I know everyone assumes heat is energy but that doesn't make it so. Heat is a result of energy interacting with matter. This is why the laws of thermodynamics don't work with electromagnetic force. The rules of thermal effects work great for fluids and solids but don't work at all for EMF.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />I know everyone assumes heat is energy but that doesn't make it so. Heat is a result of energy interacting with matter. This is why the laws of thermodynamics don't work with electromagnetic force. The rules of thermal effects work great for fluids and solids but don't work at all for EMF.
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Lets say you take an atom and apply extreme pressure to crush the daylights out of it, something like detonating a nuclear bomb.
The result of which will produce:
- radiation in different wave lengths
- heat
- light
- force fields (from strong to weak)

Electromagnetic forces is the result of the atom undergoing an entropy change.

<b>Heat is part of the equation</b>.

This topic has been touched on at another thread and the entrophy of the atom was at the focus. It seems to me if you make a "T-S" diagram a single atom can be placed anywhere from zero to infinity within the diagram and be exactly the same atom. The entrophy and temperature of the single atom can have any value and not change at all. The value of the TS diagram is beyond question for thermodynamic studies even though nothing about the atom is obtained. Anyway, heat is a result of energy interacting with matter and has little to do with what atoms are about. Its too bad these things get cross polinated and lose all detail.

This is why we stay in 18th century thinking.