Denial or Ignorance Amongst NASA Scientists?

<i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>

<i> I have noticed that about 0.1% of the images released in the first few years contained anomalies of high interest; whereas almost none of the images released in the past few years have had these.</i>
Please excuse me for jumping in mid stream, as it were - but I had to comment on your observation: this has been driving me nuts! I came to the same conclusion after the M13-M18 and esp. the E07-E12 images were released. I absolutely cannot concieve how anyone that is not brain dead can not be interested in re-imaging for example, M0400291 (so-called "glass tubes") or M0804668 (so-called "tree's") or dozens of other inexplicable sites - this leads me to believe that they have been reimaged, and the results are not easily dismissed, and therefore haven't - and wont be released. Thank God for competition (ESA) and the MRO HiRise - I can't wait for the data!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by metamars</i>
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<br />Tom,

My speculation about a possible deep black space program doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me.
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Nor to me. Note that in my original post, Squyres made no attempt to ask me what I meant by "glassy tubes". Since I have to believe that the odds of Squyres not knowing what the "glassy tubes" are, even if by another name, is somewhere between 0 and .00000000000001, his behavior is consistent with the sort of lying and deception we've come to expect from so many of our "public servants". If he wasn't covering up, he was awfully incurious.

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I ran across references to just such a program in two books, one by a former NASA astronaut and the other from former military intelligence officer, William Cooper's book, Behold a Pale Horse.

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Would you be kind enough to give us the other reference?

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Additionally, revealing testimony was given at the Operation Disclosure press conference a few years ago in Washington D.C. concerning our government's use of anti gravity craft (secretly in use for decades according to sworn testimony) and the time it took to get to Mars (less than a half hour).

If this is true why wouldn't we already have an established presence on Mars? I can hardly imagine that the military would have the ability to get to Mars and not take advantage of it.

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If it only takes 1/2 hour to get there, there's less of a compelling reason to establish a base there. If your job is a 30 minute commute from your house, you're extremely unlikely to relocate to reduce the time of that commute.... Now, if it took 2 weeks, there would be a stronger motivation to do so.

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I have long suspected that the public has been encouraged to believe that silvery discs that are spotted in the skies belong to extraterrestrials, that the ETs and alien abduction scenarios are put forth as a cover for our own government's possession and use of flying saucer technology.
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All students of the UFO phenomenon know that UFO's have been recorded throughout history, though the incidence seems to have greatly increased since the detonation of the first atomic bomb.

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Delving into the history of anti gravity craft one is confronted by facts such as the Germans were already developing this technology before WW2, that our government came away from the war with possession of that technology, took it deep black and started refining it.
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I find this doubtful since they didn't even master atomic bombs, and just managed to create jet airplanes shortly before the war ended.

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Coincidently, it was shortly after World War 2 when reports of flying saucer sightings first started surfacing in the media.
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Close to true, but not exactly true. See above.

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A clandestine space program far advanced to the one that is put on for public show makes sense to me for a number of reasons. When we first landed on the Moon there was great momentum, a lot of grand talk about future missions to Mars, more trips to the Moon and then what happened? It was like the space exploration program went into slow mo for the next 40 years or so. Just the fact that we never went back to the moon for further exploration (as far as we know) seems implausable to me, especially considering the strategic and research advantages a moonbased presence might yield.
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These don't strike me as strong arguments. What are the "strategic advantages" of a moon base?? For that matter, what are the research advantages of a manned program over a robotic program?

Now if the moon has artifacts, then a moon base <i>does</i> make sense (assuming it doesn't just take 10 minutes to get there).....

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The excitement of original discovery just doesn't seem to be there anymore. Given the rate that technology advances at I find it hard to believe that more progress hasn't been made in the last four decades.

In the past NASA has publicly talked about discontinuing the Space Shuttles. Possibly the shuttles are completely and hopelessly outdated compared with what the real capabilities are and NASA is bored to tears with this part of the for public consumption only space program.
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Again, while I agree that NASA/JPL are pursuing a hidden agenda, probably for military reasons, I don't find some of your arguments for believing this very compelling.

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Additionally, the general vibe around the space program has changed. The first trip to the Moon seemed to be a truly open and shared experience, televised live allowing the global population to simultaneously experience the real time excitement and tension of mankind’s first voyage to the moon. Everybody involved from astronauts, scientists, NASA technicians, government officials seemed to be openly experiencing and sharing the excitement of this great journey together with the public as it was happening.

What a different feeling I got from the Mars Missions. No live coverage. Events that gave me the impression that things were going on we weren't being told about. Orbiters mysteriously malfunctioning or disappearing just as they were settling into position to begin taking images. One of these incidents was blamed on one of the technical scientists getting inches mixed up with metric measurement. I thought this sounded rather unlikely considering that science classes I attended from junior high school on only used metric measurements as metric was the international scientific standard. And then there were the statements that the Orbiter had to settle into Orbit for what seemed like a very long and unlikely time before images could begin to be transmitted (this left me with the impression that images were already being transmitted but for some reason the public was not going to be allowed to see these first images.)

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I, too, am deeply suspicious of the inches/metric excuse. However, if you think about it, if our technology is as advanced as you believe that it is, the black op people don't <i>need</i> pictures from any of the publicly known satellites.

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I can think of any number or reasons the government might choose to go that route. Having an established presence on Mars before other interested parties even suspect the truth would offer a huge advantage, giving our country a competitive edge as to who will control our planetary system from a strategic point of view and also who will control access to the resources the rest of the planets have to offer. Looking into the future there is a tremendous amount of fortune and power wound up in this and in the end the bottom line always seems to come down to who holds the reins of power, who controls the resources and who gets the money.
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In essence, I agree with you here, although not necessarily on the "having an established presence" part. I don't really understand why our government continues to lie so pathologically about UFO's here on earth. However, I can easily understand why they would lie about artifacts on Mars. Assuming alien civilizations follow a similar exponential growth in knowledge that we Earthlings do, whoever created the artifacts on Mars (if, indeed, they are artifacts) probably attained a high level of technology far beyond anything that we have. Our military would love to have an exclusive look at that, and spreading the word about ET on Mars isn't exactly a good way to go about things.

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I have read that the technology the public is allowed to know about is generally 40 years or so behind what the government is secretly holding. How much of a stretch is it to consider that this might also be true of the space program?
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I am a student of the 911 attacks, and have come to the conclusion that it was a DOD operation as much as anything else. Take a close look at the vaporization of the steel spire which survived the initial "collapse"* of WTC North Tower at [url] home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/The_...pse_of_the_Spire.htm [/url]
I have analyzed this (somewhat) in my post at [url] forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=59680 [/url] The cause collapse of the spire, like the collapse of the WTC towers themselves, remains an unexplained mystery. I believe the most likely hypothesis is an exotic directed energy weapon. The collapses are not explained well (IMO) by explosives alone, and as for the government's energetically impossible "explanation" of the collapses, see [url] 911research.wtc7.net/ [/url] for a thorough debunking of the FEMA Fairy Tale (also, the NIST non-explanation is debunked).

I also heard from a second hand source some years ago that we already have beam type weapons that can take out ICBM's. Which may explain why tests of ABM systems mysteriously fail, even when they have homing signals. The military boys may not be as dumb as they pretend to be....

Finally, I thought you might be interested in knowing that I have a mathematician cousin who worked on life support systems for astronauts, with a view to getting to Mars and back. Mars has lots of argon, but not a lot of nitrogen. You want to dilute oxygen in living quarters with an inert gas, otherwise a spark could be the end of you.

My cousin came up with a system of differential equations that showed how you could switch from pure oxygen to an oxygen-argon mixture, and do so more quickly than going to oxygen-nitrogen. His model was experimentally verified, and I got the impression that they will go with that if and when we send a man to Mars (in a non-UFO type craft, anyway []). He left that job around 5 years ago, not 40.
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deleted double post

Rob posted:

"Please excuse me for jumping in mid stream, as it were - but I had to comment on your observation: this has been driving me nuts! I came to the same conclusion after the M13-M18 and esp. the E07-E12 images were released. "

Amen! Regarding those EO7-E12 images, some of them looked like they had been made out of carpet and foam rubber scraps, littered with old shoes and plaster of paris. While I was looking at them peculiar thoughts floated through my head. I found myself wondering if the old shoes were being used as part of a ritual, hiding part of the truth right under our noses or if the shoes had belonged to humans batch consigned to work as slave labor on Mars. Other images in this series had a strange, almost computer generated look to them, interesting images but on inspection no details of interest whatsoever. These images seem strangely sterile to me. A couple of the images looked to me like bizarre assemblages incorporating human bodies. I know that sounds insane but that was honestly what went through my head when looking at some of those images. I don't work with the E series images at all, unless it is to point out the high strangeness of some of them.

I formerly posted these excerpts from William Cooper's book, "Behold a Pale Horse":

"... President Kennedy issued an ultimatum in 1973 to Majesty 12 to clean up the drug problem or he would. He also informed them that he intended to reveal the presence of aliens to the American people within the year…President Kennedy’s decision struck fear into the hearts of those in charge. His assassination was ordered by the Bilderberg Policy Committee and the order was carried out by agents in Dallas.”

and

""I read while in Naval Intelligence that at least once a year, maybe more, two nuclear submarines meet beneath the polar icecap and mate together at an airlock. Representatives of the Soviet Union meet with the Policy Committee of the Bilderberg Group...Items on the agenda include the combined efforts in the secret space program governing Alternative 3. "

William Cooper also mentions in his book that part of his job while working in Intelligence for the Navy was receiving coded transmissions and passing them on to his superiors. He was told that if transmitted orders were ever received identified with the code word MAJESTY, they would supercede any order the President might give.

Rereading this jogged my memory about something that has always perplexed me. I read a report some time ago that two sitting Presidents, President Carter and President Clinton, had both requested information on the alien situation, also asking to tour certain underground bases. Both of the Presidential requests for information on aliens were refused by then head of the CIA, George Bush. This refusal confounded me because I had been under the impression that a sitting President of the United States Commander in Chief of everything including the military. If the Carter/Clinton story is true it lends credence to the info Cooper discloses in his book, information that strongly suggests there is a secret authority that can override Presidential directives.

From a report I found at RENSE today:


STATE DEPARTMENT DISSES CONSPIRACY THEORIES

"The U.S. military or intelligence community is a favorite villain in many conspiracy theories."

How to Identify Misinformation

How can a journalist or a news consumer tell if a story is true or false? There are no exact rules, but the following clues can help indicate if a story or allegation is true.

Does the story fit the pattern of a conspiracy theory?
Does the story fit the pattern of an “urban legend?”
Does the story contain a shocking revelation about a highly controversial issue?
Is the source trustworthy?
What does further research tell you?
Does the story fit the pattern of a conspiracy theory?

Does the story claim that vast, powerful, evil forces are secretly manipulating events? If so, this fits the profile of a conspiracy theory."
_______________________________________

Oh Well... that's nice, If any shocking revelations are revealed about "powerful, evil forces secretly manipulating events" then it is just NUTS-SO disinformation from those crazy, paranoid conspiracy researchers. So officially there is no such thing as a secret, evil conspiracy....

Well, in that case I suppose everyone should just disregard my last few posts.[]