Denial or Ignorance Amongst NASA Scientists?

A bigger problem may be the apparent preference of governments for manned rather than robotic space exploration . . . The best I can come up with is in 5.9 of my ebook at www.nodrift.com :

Solar Power and Cold Fusion have four things in common:
1. Both promise highly distributed, uncentralised power with no need for governmental involvement.
2. Both have been under-funded by governments, compared to sciences needing to be centrally controlled (which governments love): nuclear power, <font color="yellow">manned space exploration </font id="yellow">and so on.


Peter Nielsen

Email: uusi@hotkey.net.au
Post: 12 View St, Sandy Bay 7005, Australia

Tom,

My speculation about a possible deep black space program doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me. I ran across references to just such a program in two books, one by a former NASA astronaut and the other from former military intelligence officer, William Cooper's book, Behold a Pale Horse. Additionally, revealing testimony was given at the Operation Disclosure press conference a few years ago in Washington D.C. concerning our government's use of anti gravity craft (secretly in use for decades according to sworn testimony) and the time it took to get to Mars (less than a half hour).

If this is true why wouldn't we already have an established presence on Mars? I can hardly imagine that the military would have the ability to get to Mars and not take advantage of it.

I have long suspected that the public has been encouraged to believe that silvery discs that are spotted in the skies belong to extraterrestrials, that the ETs and alien abduction scenarios are put forth as a cover for our own government's possession and use of flying saucer technology.

Delving into the history of anti gravity craft one is confronted by facts such as the Germans were already developing this technology before WW2, that our government came away from the war with possession of that technology, took it deep black and started refining it. Coincidently, it was shortly after World War 2 when reports of flying saucer sightings first started surfacing in the media.

A clandestine space program far advanced to the one that is put on for public show makes sense to me for a number of reasons. When we first landed on the Moon there was great momentum, a lot of grand talk about future missions to Mars, more trips to the Moon and then what happened? It was like the space exploration program went into slow mo for the next 40 years or so. Just the fact that we never went back to the moon for further exploration (as far as we know) seems implausable to me, especially considering the strategic and research advantages a moonbased presence might yield.

The excitement of original discovery just doesn't seem to be there anymore. Given the rate that technology advances at I find it hard to believe that more progress hasn't been made in the last four decades.

In the past NASA has publicly talked about discontinuing the Space Shuttles. Possibly the shuttles are completely and hopelessly outdated compared with what the real capabilities are and NASA is bored to tears with this part of the for public consumption only space program.

Additionally, the general vibe around the space program has changed. The first trip to the Moon seemed to be a truly open and shared experience, televised live allowing the global population to simultaneously experience the real time excitement and tension of mankind’s first voyage to the moon. Everybody involved from astronauts, scientists, NASA technicians, government officials seemed to be openly experiencing and sharing the excitement of this great journey together with the public as it was happening.

What a different feeling I got from the Mars Missions. No live coverage. Events that gave me the impression that things were going on we weren't being told about. Orbiters mysteriously malfunctioning or disappearing just as they were settling into position to begin taking images. One of these incidents was blamed on one of the technical scientists getting inches mixed up with metric measurement. I thought this sounded rather unlikely considering that science classes I attended from junior high school on only used metric measurement, the international scientific standard. And then there were the statements that the Orbiter had to settle into Orbit for what seemed like a very long and unlikely time before images could begin to be transmitted (this left me with the impression that images were already being transmitted but for some reason the public was not going to be allowed to see these first images.)

IMO the general impression emanating from JPL/NASA is that they are not being exactly forthcoming about everything, that there are secrets about space exploration and Mars being kept from public view. I think historically we have been fed a lot of hogwash concerning Mars. It's still going on. Just recently I watched a science special on Mars that was alarming full of misinformation. Just the fact that for years images of Mars were adjusted to make the planet appear more red and inhospitable is very interesting to me. Why, in the name of science would anyone be adjusting the true color of the images if they weren't trying to perpetuate falsehoods?

During the Moon landing the astronauts were reported to have made comments about seeing things that indicated an extraterrestrial presence already on the Moon. With the official "keep it secret at all costs" policy our government has regarding extraterrestrial life would it be so surprising that the exploration part of the space program would go deep black? Especially if there also happened to be extensive proof of past or present intelligent civilization on Mars.

I can think of any number or reasons the government might choose to go that route. Having an established presence on Mars before other interested parties even suspect the truth would offer a huge advantage, giving our country a competitive edge as to who will control our planetary system from a strategic point of view and also who will control access to the resources the rest of the planets have to offer. Looking into the future there is a tremendous amount of fortune and power wound up in this and in the end the bottom line always seems to come down to who holds the reins of power, who controls the resources and who gets the money.

I have read that the technology the public is allowed to know about is generally 40 years or so behind what the government is secretly holding. How much of a stretch is it to consider that this might also be true of the space program?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by xterrester</i>
<br />Tom,

My speculation about a possible deep black space program doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Nor to me. Note that in my original post, Squyres made no attempt to ask me what I meant by "glassy tubes". Since I have to believe that the odds of Squyres not knowing what the "glassy tubes" are, even if by another name, is somewhere between 0 and .00000000000001, his behavior is consistent with the sort of lying and deception we've come to expect from so many of our "public servants". If he wasn't covering up, he was awfully incurious.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I ran across references to just such a program in two books, one by a former NASA astronaut and the other from former military intelligence officer, William Cooper's book, Behold a Pale Horse.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Would you be kind enough to give us the other reference?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Additionally, revealing testimony was given at the Operation Disclosure press conference a few years ago in Washington D.C. concerning our government's use of anti gravity craft (secretly in use for decades according to sworn testimony) and the time it took to get to Mars (less than a half hour).

If this is true why wouldn't we already have an established presence on Mars? I can hardly imagine that the military would have the ability to get to Mars and not take advantage of it.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If it only takes 1/2 hour to get there, there's less of a compelling reason to establish a base there. If your job is a 30 minute commute from your house, you're extremely unlikely to relocate to reduce the time of that commute.... Now, if it took 2 weeks, there would be a stronger motivation to do so.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I have long suspected that the public has been encouraged to believe that silvery discs that are spotted in the skies belong to extraterrestrials, that the ETs and alien abduction scenarios are put forth as a cover for our own government's possession and use of flying saucer technology.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

All students of the UFO phenomenon know that UFO's have been recorded throughout history, though the incidence seems to have greatly increased since the detonation of the first atomic bomb.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Delving into the history of anti gravity craft one is confronted by facts such as the Germans were already developing this technology before WW2, that our government came away from the war with possession of that technology, took it deep black and started refining it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I find this doubtful since they didn't even master atomic bombs, and just managed to create jet airplanes shortly before the war ended.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Coincidently, it was shortly after World War 2 when reports of flying saucer sightings first started surfacing in the media.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Close to true, but not exactly true. See above.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
A clandestine space program far advanced to the one that is put on for public show makes sense to me for a number of reasons. When we first landed on the Moon there was great momentum, a lot of grand talk about future missions to Mars, more trips to the Moon and then what happened? It was like the space exploration program went into slow mo for the next 40 years or so. Just the fact that we never went back to the moon for further exploration (as far as we know) seems implausable to me, especially considering the strategic and research advantages a moonbased presence might yield.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

These don't strike me as strong arguments. What are the "strategic advantages" of a moon base?? For that matter, what are the research advantages of a manned program over a robotic program?

Now if the moon has artifacts, then a moon base <i>does</i> make sense (assuming it doesn't just take 10 minutes to get there).....

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

The excitement of original discovery just doesn't seem to be there anymore. Given the rate that technology advances at I find it hard to believe that more progress hasn't been made in the last four decades.

In the past NASA has publicly talked about discontinuing the Space Shuttles. Possibly the shuttles are completely and hopelessly outdated compared with what the real capabilities are and NASA is bored to tears with this part of the for public consumption only space program.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Again, while I agree that NASA/JPL are pursuing a hidden agenda, probably for military reasons, I don't find some of your arguments for believing this very compelling.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Additionally, the general vibe around the space program has changed. The first trip to the Moon seemed to be a truly open and shared experience, televised live allowing the global population to simultaneously experience the real time excitement and tension of mankind’s first voyage to the moon. Everybody involved from astronauts, scientists, NASA technicians, government officials seemed to be openly experiencing and sharing the excitement of this great journey together with the public as it was happening.

What a different feeling I got from the Mars Missions. No live coverage. Events that gave me the impression that things were going on we weren't being told about. Orbiters mysteriously malfunctioning or disappearing just as they were settling into position to begin taking images. One of these incidents was blamed on one of the technical scientists getting inches mixed up with metric measurement. I thought this sounded rather unlikely considering that science classes I attended from junior high school on only used metric measurements as metric was the international scientific standard. And then there were the statements that the Orbiter had to settle into Orbit for what seemed like a very long and unlikely time before images could begin to be transmitted (this left me with the impression that images were already being transmitted but for some reason the public was not going to be allowed to see these first images.)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I, too, am deeply suspicious of the inches/metric excuse. However, if you think about it, if our technology is as advanced as you believe that it is, the black op people don't <i>need</i> pictures from any of the publicly known satellites.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I can think of any number or reasons the government might choose to go that route. Having an established presence on Mars before other interested parties even suspect the truth would offer a huge advantage, giving our country a competitive edge as to who will control our planetary system from a strategic point of view and also who will control access to the resources the rest of the planets have to offer. Looking into the future there is a tremendous amount of fortune and power wound up in this and in the end the bottom line always seems to come down to who holds the reins of power, who controls the resources and who gets the money.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

In essence, I agree with you here, although not necessarily on the "having an established presence" part. I don't really understand why our government continues to lie so pathologically about UFO's here on earth. However, I can easily understand why they would lie about artifacts on Mars. Assuming alien civilizations follow a similar exponential growth in knowledge that we Earthlings do, whoever created the artifacts on Mars (if, indeed, they are artifacts) probably attained a high level of technology far beyond anything that we have. Our military would love to have an exclusive look at that, and spreading the word about ET on Mars isn't exactly a good way to go about things.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I have read that the technology the public is allowed to know about is generally 40 years or so behind what the government is secretly holding. How much of a stretch is it to consider that this might also be true of the space program?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I am a student of the 911 attacks, and have come to the conclusion that it was a DOD operation as much as anything else. Take a close look at the vaporization of the steel spire which survived the initial "collapse"* of WTC North Tower at [url] home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/The_...pse_of_the_Spire.htm [/url]
I have analyzed this (somewhat) in my post at [url] forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=59680 [/url] The cause collapse of the spire, like the collapse of the WTC towers themselves, remains an unexplained mystery. I believe the most likely hypothesis is an exotic directed energy weapon. The collapses are not explained well (IMO) by explosives alone, and as for the government's energetically impossible "explanation" of the collapses, see [url] 911research.wtc7.net/ [/url] for a thorough debunking of the FEMA Fairy Tale (also, the NIST non-explanation is debunked).

I also heard from a second hand source some years ago that we already have beam type weapons that can take out ICBM's. Which may explain why tests of ABM systems mysteriously fail, even when they have homing signals. The military boys may not be as dumb as they pretend to be....

Finally, I thought you might be interested in knowing that I have a mathematician cousin who worked on life support systems for astronauts, with a view to getting to Mars and back. Mars has lots of argon, but not a lot of nitrogen. You want to dilute oxygen in living quarters with an inert gas, otherwise a spark could be the end of you.

My cousin came up with a system of differential equations that showed how you could switch from pure oxygen to an oxygen-argon mixture, and do so more quickly than going to oxygen-nitrogen. His model was experimentally verified, and I got the impression that they will go with that if and when we send a man to Mars (in a non-UFO type craft, anyway []). He left that job around 5 years ago, not 40.

Metamars, the following may address some of the points brought up in your post. I, too believe that there has been an alien interataction or presence on Earth for far longer than the 1950's. I only mention that time as when reports of UFO's started showing up in popular media. I also believe that the UFO/Alien Abuduction situation has been exploited by our government as a cover for our own government's possesion and use of anti gravity technology and as a cover for the abduction of private citizens for use in a black genetics and/or implantation programs of some type. When I hear science programs speak of future days when mankind might be genetically altered to withstand the rigors of life on other planets, genetically altered to have radiation resistent leathery skin or an anti freeze gene incorporated into our blood to enable us to live on very cold planets or gills to live on watery planets, I am caused to wonder what type of research might secretly be going on in underground facilities like Dulce. The few reports that have managed to surface about the underground goings on at Dulce are enough to make one's hair stand on end.

I basically agree with your conclusions about 911 and think it is a classic example of Heglian dialectics in action, but imo the directive for this came from an even higher authority than the DOD.

Regarding advanced weaponry if you haven't already done so you might want to read the info at Tom Beardon's site on scalar weaponry.

I am still searching for the quote from the book by the former astronaut; the title of that book is Miracle in the Void by Dr. Brian O’Leary.

The following is from pp 213-215, Behold A Pale Horse by former Military Intelligence Officer, William Cooper:

“A symposium was held in 1957 which was attended by some of the great scientific minds then living. They reached the conclusion that by or shortly after the year 2000 the planet would self-destruct due to increased population and man’s exploitation of the environment without any help from God or the aliens.

By secret executive order of President Eisenhower, the JASON Scholars were ordered to study this scenario and make recommendations from their findings. The JASON Society confirmed the findings of the scientists and made three recommendations called ALTERNATIVES 1, 2 AND 3.

Alternative 1 was to use nuclear weapons to blast holes in the stratosphere from which heat and pollution could escape into space…Alternative 2 was to build a vast network of underground cities and tunnels in which a select representation of all cultures and occupations would survive and carry on the human race. The rest of humanity would be left to fend for themselves on the surface of the planet. We know that facilities have been built {and are continuing to be built} and are ready and waiting for the chosen few to be notified.

Alternative 3 was to exploit the alien and conventional technology in order for a select few to leave the earth and establish colonies in outer space. I am not able to either confirm or deny the existence of batch consignments of human slaves, which would be used for the manual labor as a part of the plan. The Moon, code-named ADAM, was the object of primary interest, followed by the planet Mars, code-named EVE. I am now in possession of official NASA photographs of one of the moon bases. I believe that the Mars colony is also a reality.

[A side note on possible batch consignments of humans providing labor on Mars: my speculation is that there may have been a relationship between rumored CIA covert mind control operations involving groups (Jonestown for one had connections to the U.S.intelligence community & mind control research) as experimental preperation for control of groups being used for labor on Mars.]

As a delaying action, all three alternatives included birth control, sterilization and the introduction of deadly microbes to control or slow the growth of the Earth’s population. AIDs is only one result of these plans…The joint U.S. and Soviet leadership dismissed Alternative 1 but ordered work to begin on
Alternative 2 and 3 virtually at the same time…

[A sidenote: The World Health Organization had been caught several times in recent years administering vaccines in third world countries to women of childbearing age that also included sterilization chemicals.)

President Kennedy boosted the official space program in his inaugural address when he mandated that the United States put a man on the Moon before the end of the decade. Although innocent in its conception, this mandate enabled those in charge to funnel vast amounts of money into black projects and conceal the REAL space program from the American people. A similar program in the Soviet Union served the same purpose. In fact, a joint alien, United States and Soviet Union base existed on the Moon at the very moment Kennedy spoke the words.

[In another section of his book, pp 94, Cooper has further comments on the joint Soviet/ U.S.secret space endeavors:

"I read while in Naval Intelligence that at least once a year, maybe more, two nuclear submarines meet beneath the polar icecap and mate together at an airlock. Representatives of the Soviet Union meet with the Policy Committee of the Bilderberg Group...Items on the agenda include the combined efforts in the secret space program governing Alternative 3. I now have in my possession official NASA photographs of a moonbase in the crater Copernicus. A BBC documentary program entitled Science Report revealed these same facts but subsequently issued a retraction. In their retraction they stated that the show had been fiction. It must be noted that Science Report was a very respected documentary-nonfiction-program in Briton and never in it's history had it aired fiction."

…. On May 22 1962, a space probe landed on Mars and confirmed the existence of an environment, which could support life. Not long afterwards the construction of a colony on the planet Mars began in earnest. Today I believe a colony exists on Mars populated by specially selected people from different cultures and occupations taken from all over the
Earth….

At some point President Kennedy discovered the truth concerning drugs and aliens. (The international illegal drug trade had been pretty much taken over by the CIA to help fund Black Ops projects, including the Mars and Moon Alternative 3 projects). President Kennedy issued an ultimatum in 1973 to Majesty 12 to clean up the drug problem or he would. He also informed them that he intended to reveal the presence of aliens to the American people within the year…President Kennedy’s decision struck fear into the hearts of those in charge. His assassination was ordered by the Bilderberg Policy Committee and the order was carried out by agents in Dallas.”

Bill Cooper is a former United States Naval Intelligence Briefing Team member. For service to our country he was authorized to wear the National Defense Services Medal, the Vietnam Service Medal, The Navy Achievement Medal and the Navy Commendation Medal.

Another bit of info from Cooper's book:

...President Truman created the supersecret National Security Agency by secret Executive order on November 4th 1952. It's primary purpose was to decipher the alien communications, language and establish a dialogue with the extraterrestrials. ...The secondary purpose of the NSA was to monitor all communications and emissions from any and all electronic devices worldwide for the purpose of gathering intellignece, both human and alien, and to contain the secret of the alien presence.....The NSA also maintains communications with the Luna base and other secret space programs."

MetaMars wrote - 14 Aug 2005 : 16:01:04:
"Regarding vibration: I'm not an engineer, but I have to believe that computer simulations will allow you to know from now how different structural designs will deal with vibrations. It seems to me they must have a very good idea of what the physical characteristics of their carbon nanotube material are, which, I presume, would make simulations under dynamic conditions relatively easy to do."

I do not think this is true . . . The physics of wave coarsening seems to be poorly understood. This is why the Space Shuttle for example, has so many problems, why engineers have not been able to figure out why the fuel tank loses foam, even after they've spent $2 billion trying to fix the problem and so on.

As I explain in paper 4.9 of my ebook at www.nodrift.com , the Space Shuttle's overall design should be more monolithic. It is too much like a tuning fork, has too many degrees of vibrational freedom. I once saw a video of the cabin during takeoff. The seats with the astronauts were shaking like mad.



Peter Nielsen

Email: uusi@hotkey.net.au
Post: 12 View St, Sandy Bay 7005, Australia