Logical Hierarchies

It is great to read this issue has been aggreed upon by all. What about the EBTX model of the space we know exists? Does the mass of the galatic structures contain more or less mass than the space they are contained within?

Jim,

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I just want to be clear that what we have agreed to is that we agree to disagree. I don't beleive we can say we have reached a concensus.

Knowing to believe only half of what you hear is a sign of intelligence. Knowing which half to believe can make you a genius.

I find it beyond human logic to consider whether the universe simply had no beginning, or whether it did. If it did, then what was before it? The logical answer would be nothingness, correct? Well, how could nothingness have been transformed into somethingness? Some scientists may theorize that while nothingness existed, electrical waves and such still existed, but how did they get into existance? When it gets to the bottom line, NOTHINGNESS, i believe, had to create somethingness somehow. By what means, when, where? I, and noone else knows.

Marks of wisdom can come from even the most unlikely sources.

Origin,

Welcome. My view opposes MM's (Tom's) view. He believes we have always existed and therefore was never created. That just doesn't add up for me.

My view of Creation ex nihilo doesn't tell us how but I feel it does show that it is valid physically where "N" is "Nothingness", described as the absence of time and space and where +/-"s" represents two opposite "Somethings".

What those are is unclear at this time. For example +s might be "Space" and -s might be "Time" within our own universe. Or it may mean that there is a -universe energy resovoir that balances the bifurcation of "0" into (+1)+(-1).

It really does seem rather simple mathematically.

"Imagination is more important than Knowledge" -- Albert Einstien

I think I oppose that of Tom's view also, because it seems to contradict itself, where something that exists really doesn't? It is very mind boggling to consider how lucky we as an entire planet are that everything happened in just such a fasion that life was possible, and even more so for humans due to our uncanny abilities to reason. While doing some searches, i stumbled upon this great page that some of you others may be interested in. The web page is www.physicsweb.org and they have articles discussing various breakthroughs and such. One such article that pertains to this topic caught my eye, where they try to explain some of this stuff out. Just do a search on Quintessence, and the article should be the first one to pop up. (This whole creation of the universe stuff is SO confusing!)

Marks of wisdom can come from even the most unlikely sources.

Origin,

Interesting. HOwever, I suggest it is premature to set ones mind to any particular theory or explanation. I have in recent days also run across papers that show data that bring into question both "Dark Energy" and "Dark Matter" (Seperate sources and research).

It almost appears that both have been created ad hoc to fill a gap created by old and not so accurate views of physics and cosmology.

Time may tell.

"Imagination is more important than Knowledge" -- Albert Einstien