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Requiem for Relativity
12 years 7 months ago #13793
by Jim
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Dr Joe, This method using words is much more interesting than all the math stuff. The wobble you are studying is relative to what? I guess the sun, but, two different reference systems are in effect here -right? One system is Earth based with equator base units and the other system is ecliptic based. So, your wobble is projected against the ecliptic and there is where the reaction should be-right?
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12 years 7 months ago #13794
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />...The wobble you are studying is relative to what? ...two different reference systems are in effect here... One system is Earth based with equator base units and the other system is ecliptic based. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Jim's summary of the coordinate situation is accurate.
In "lunisolar precession" (i.e. the 26,000 yr precession) Earth's spin angular momentum vector moves in a big cone relative to ecliptic latitude and longitude (i.e. coordinates based on the Sun). In "torque-free precession" Earth's spin angular momentum vector is constant and Earth's spin axis changes only very slightly (this slight change is due to Earth's slight spheroidal shape which is askew during torque-free precession). Relative to Earth coordinates (Earth latitude and longitude) during torque-free precession, the pole moves in a big cone; that is, different parts of Earth (along a line of latitude) come to lie under the rotation pole, which is itself almost exactly fixed in space.
Mainstream experts on the Ice Ages have remarked that cool (not necessarily freezing) summers are especially effective for the accumulation of ice. That is, more ice can accumulate, when summers are cooler, even if the total yearly insolation is somewhat greater. In the approximation of a circular Earth orbit, I find that for torque-free precession at 19deg, the "pole" (i.e. the Earth point under the celestial pole at the winter solstice, so that at the winter solstice, it becomes the north pole) gets 28% more insolation during the entire year than would a real pole (because it gets considerable insolation at the equinoxes when a real pole would get none) but 8% less insolation, than a real pole, at the summer solstice.
<br />...The wobble you are studying is relative to what? ...two different reference systems are in effect here... One system is Earth based with equator base units and the other system is ecliptic based. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Jim's summary of the coordinate situation is accurate.
In "lunisolar precession" (i.e. the 26,000 yr precession) Earth's spin angular momentum vector moves in a big cone relative to ecliptic latitude and longitude (i.e. coordinates based on the Sun). In "torque-free precession" Earth's spin angular momentum vector is constant and Earth's spin axis changes only very slightly (this slight change is due to Earth's slight spheroidal shape which is askew during torque-free precession). Relative to Earth coordinates (Earth latitude and longitude) during torque-free precession, the pole moves in a big cone; that is, different parts of Earth (along a line of latitude) come to lie under the rotation pole, which is itself almost exactly fixed in space.
Mainstream experts on the Ice Ages have remarked that cool (not necessarily freezing) summers are especially effective for the accumulation of ice. That is, more ice can accumulate, when summers are cooler, even if the total yearly insolation is somewhat greater. In the approximation of a circular Earth orbit, I find that for torque-free precession at 19deg, the "pole" (i.e. the Earth point under the celestial pole at the winter solstice, so that at the winter solstice, it becomes the north pole) gets 28% more insolation during the entire year than would a real pole (because it gets considerable insolation at the equinoxes when a real pole would get none) but 8% less insolation, than a real pole, at the summer solstice.
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12 years 7 months ago #21415
by Jim
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Dr Joe, If you rough in the energy our planet gets from the sun you will see the polar zones on average get about 70 watts per square meter and the equator ~250w/m^2. The average temp at the poles is ~260K +/-? At 260K the poles are radiating 260w/m^2. So, the solar input is less than 25% ot the energy used at the poles even when ice is a mile thick. The idea that orbital details can explain this is not very logical.
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12 years 7 months ago #13795
by Joe Keller
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />Dr Joe, If you rough in the energy our planet gets from the sun you will see the polar zones on average get about 70 watts per square meter and the equator ~250w/m^2. The average temp at the poles is ~260K +/-? At 260K the poles are radiating 260w/m^2. So, the solar input is less than 25% ot the energy used at the poles even when ice is a mile thick. The idea that orbital details can explain this is not very logical.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Jim,
Thanks for this timely input of information.
- Joe Keller
<br />Dr Joe, If you rough in the energy our planet gets from the sun you will see the polar zones on average get about 70 watts per square meter and the equator ~250w/m^2. The average temp at the poles is ~260K +/-? At 260K the poles are radiating 260w/m^2. So, the solar input is less than 25% ot the energy used at the poles even when ice is a mile thick. The idea that orbital details can explain this is not very logical.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Jim,
Thanks for this timely input of information.
- Joe Keller
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12 years 7 months ago #24191
by Joe Keller
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I've been improving my calculations, and the latest edits to my posts contain those improvements, but here's another summary that I think is my best yet:
1. Torque-free precession is when there is practically no external torque (i.e. the tiny torques due to Luna & the Sun are negligible) . Because there is no external torque, Earth's spin angular momentum vector is constant. But that doesn't mean that the same piece of turf has to be under the pole all the time. Earth can move so that different pieces of turf are under the pole. The "pole" (i.e. latitude & longitude of the piece of turf) can move (i.e. "precess") a lot, relative to Earth coordinates, even though the angular momentum vector is unchanged in "absolute" coordinates. (When this happens there is also a slight daily wiggling of Earth's spin vector in absolute coordinates, due to Earth's slight asphericity and Earth's being somewhat askew, which causes the spin vector to have a direction slightly different from the angular momentum vector, but that's pretty negligible.)
2. Earth has almost perfect symmetry about the z-axis of its spheroid. So, two of Earth's moments of inertia are equal, both slightly smaller than the z-axis moment of inertia. The equality of those two x & y-axis moments, simplifies "Euler's equations" (Euler's equations amount to a statement of conservation of angular momentum, expressed in rotating Earth coordinates by way of an expression for "Coriolis force" applied to the angular momentum vector itself). Then it's pretty simple to rearrange Euler's equations to show that Earth can "precess" so that the pole moves slowly along a line of Earth latitude. Even without Euler's equations, just considering conservation of energy and angular momentum, it is evident that two variables, (1) the latitude of this precession line, and (2) the period of Earth's rotation, are determined by two equations involving angular momentum and kinetic energy of rotation and Earth's moments of inertia. Angular momentum is a known constant, the same as it is today, but I need to know the kinetic energy (see #4) and the moments of inertia (i.e. the flattening) (see #5).
3. As long as the changes in kinetic energy and angular momentum are small, the instantaneous period of Earth's sidereal rotation changes only by a few seconds: e.g. 56 sec shorter, in the 18.90deg precession solution discussed below. But the latitude of the precession line, i.e. angle of precession, can become large with only small changes in kinetic energy and no change in angular momentum. Basically this is because Earth's flattening is small. When Earth's kinetic energy is exactly what it is now, all Earth can do is rotate with nearly perfect symmetry about its z-axis, as it does now; but if Earth somehow acquired more kinetic energy of rotation, it could precess at a large angle.
4. Earth's gravitational self-energy is large; about 1000x Earth's kinetic energy of rotation. The energy released by, say, a major decrease in Earth's flattening (like energy released by a falling weight or a skater pulling in his arms) is of the order of magnitude to enable large-angle torque-free precession. My best effort to calculate this energy of flattening, is that it is
8/5 * (k/3)^2 * Earth's total gravitational self-energy
"k" is the flattening ratio, 1/297. (In practice I make small adjustments to account for my belief that the core does not participate in this torque-free precession.) Half of the above energy, a "4/5" is simply due to generally greater distances between mass particles, when Earth is flattened. Half of the energy, i.e. a "4/5" is a "monatomic adiabatic perfect gas response" to the other half, assuming Earth isn't truly "incompressible": when Earth is less flattened, forces are greater, pressures are greater, and Earth shrinks slightly to a new equilibrium, releasing yet more potential gravitational energy, namely an "8/5" but due to "the virial theorem", half of that energy goes into heat, and half, another "4/5" is available for mechanical work, so 4/5 + 1/2 * 8/5 = 8/5 is the answer.
5. I also need to know how much Earth flattens. I simply averaged all the spheroids one would get with the poles at different points along the line of latitude. The answer is that the flattening is lessened by the factor
1 - 3/2 * sin^2 (alpha)
where alpha is the colatitude of the precession, i.e. the central half-angle of the precession cone.
6. Using my estimates of flattening and gravitational energy release, I have all that I need to solve those two equations in two unknowns, for Earth's spin rate and precession angle. I find that there are two solutions:
I. What is happening today.
II. Torque-free precession along the 71st (lat 71.10) parallel, with less than a minute difference in day length.
Between these two solutions are "energy trough" states, i.e., states that are easily traversible. I & II are like the two extreme swings of the pendulum.
7. Now here are the two reasons to believe that I am right in #4 and #5:
a) There is another equation, obtained from Euler's equations, that gives the period of the torque-free precession. The period turns out to be a year; if my estimate of the gravitational potential energy release, is increased by only 2% (believable, considering the crudity of my approximations) then the precession period is exactly one tropical year.
b) The torque-free precession is at such a latitude that it would explain Hapgood's estimates of the poles. With a precession period of one year, having the pole at Hudson's Bay in winter has about the same effect on ice cap position, as having the pole at Hudson's Bay year-round. Hapgood estimated the last three Ice Age pole latitudes (in today's Earth coordinates) as, most recent to least recent, 60, 72, & 63deg latitude.
1. Torque-free precession is when there is practically no external torque (i.e. the tiny torques due to Luna & the Sun are negligible) . Because there is no external torque, Earth's spin angular momentum vector is constant. But that doesn't mean that the same piece of turf has to be under the pole all the time. Earth can move so that different pieces of turf are under the pole. The "pole" (i.e. latitude & longitude of the piece of turf) can move (i.e. "precess") a lot, relative to Earth coordinates, even though the angular momentum vector is unchanged in "absolute" coordinates. (When this happens there is also a slight daily wiggling of Earth's spin vector in absolute coordinates, due to Earth's slight asphericity and Earth's being somewhat askew, which causes the spin vector to have a direction slightly different from the angular momentum vector, but that's pretty negligible.)
2. Earth has almost perfect symmetry about the z-axis of its spheroid. So, two of Earth's moments of inertia are equal, both slightly smaller than the z-axis moment of inertia. The equality of those two x & y-axis moments, simplifies "Euler's equations" (Euler's equations amount to a statement of conservation of angular momentum, expressed in rotating Earth coordinates by way of an expression for "Coriolis force" applied to the angular momentum vector itself). Then it's pretty simple to rearrange Euler's equations to show that Earth can "precess" so that the pole moves slowly along a line of Earth latitude. Even without Euler's equations, just considering conservation of energy and angular momentum, it is evident that two variables, (1) the latitude of this precession line, and (2) the period of Earth's rotation, are determined by two equations involving angular momentum and kinetic energy of rotation and Earth's moments of inertia. Angular momentum is a known constant, the same as it is today, but I need to know the kinetic energy (see #4) and the moments of inertia (i.e. the flattening) (see #5).
3. As long as the changes in kinetic energy and angular momentum are small, the instantaneous period of Earth's sidereal rotation changes only by a few seconds: e.g. 56 sec shorter, in the 18.90deg precession solution discussed below. But the latitude of the precession line, i.e. angle of precession, can become large with only small changes in kinetic energy and no change in angular momentum. Basically this is because Earth's flattening is small. When Earth's kinetic energy is exactly what it is now, all Earth can do is rotate with nearly perfect symmetry about its z-axis, as it does now; but if Earth somehow acquired more kinetic energy of rotation, it could precess at a large angle.
4. Earth's gravitational self-energy is large; about 1000x Earth's kinetic energy of rotation. The energy released by, say, a major decrease in Earth's flattening (like energy released by a falling weight or a skater pulling in his arms) is of the order of magnitude to enable large-angle torque-free precession. My best effort to calculate this energy of flattening, is that it is
8/5 * (k/3)^2 * Earth's total gravitational self-energy
"k" is the flattening ratio, 1/297. (In practice I make small adjustments to account for my belief that the core does not participate in this torque-free precession.) Half of the above energy, a "4/5" is simply due to generally greater distances between mass particles, when Earth is flattened. Half of the energy, i.e. a "4/5" is a "monatomic adiabatic perfect gas response" to the other half, assuming Earth isn't truly "incompressible": when Earth is less flattened, forces are greater, pressures are greater, and Earth shrinks slightly to a new equilibrium, releasing yet more potential gravitational energy, namely an "8/5" but due to "the virial theorem", half of that energy goes into heat, and half, another "4/5" is available for mechanical work, so 4/5 + 1/2 * 8/5 = 8/5 is the answer.
5. I also need to know how much Earth flattens. I simply averaged all the spheroids one would get with the poles at different points along the line of latitude. The answer is that the flattening is lessened by the factor
1 - 3/2 * sin^2 (alpha)
where alpha is the colatitude of the precession, i.e. the central half-angle of the precession cone.
6. Using my estimates of flattening and gravitational energy release, I have all that I need to solve those two equations in two unknowns, for Earth's spin rate and precession angle. I find that there are two solutions:
I. What is happening today.
II. Torque-free precession along the 71st (lat 71.10) parallel, with less than a minute difference in day length.
Between these two solutions are "energy trough" states, i.e., states that are easily traversible. I & II are like the two extreme swings of the pendulum.
7. Now here are the two reasons to believe that I am right in #4 and #5:
a) There is another equation, obtained from Euler's equations, that gives the period of the torque-free precession. The period turns out to be a year; if my estimate of the gravitational potential energy release, is increased by only 2% (believable, considering the crudity of my approximations) then the precession period is exactly one tropical year.
b) The torque-free precession is at such a latitude that it would explain Hapgood's estimates of the poles. With a precession period of one year, having the pole at Hudson's Bay in winter has about the same effect on ice cap position, as having the pole at Hudson's Bay year-round. Hapgood estimated the last three Ice Age pole latitudes (in today's Earth coordinates) as, most recent to least recent, 60, 72, & 63deg latitude.
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12 years 7 months ago #13796
by Joe Keller
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Cholula, Arcturus and 2012
The Cholula pyramid in Mexico is the world's largest manmade structure, more voluminous than the Great Pyramid of Giza, though only half as tall. Today it is covered in soil and vegetation and resembles a hill with a Spanish church on top. Arcturus is the brightest star in the northern hemisphere (though some authorities say Vega, depending on photometric details).
I used VizieR's online Bright Star Catalog for the J2000 coordinates of Arcturus, got the Proper Motion (-1.1"/yr RA & -2.0"/yr Decl) from Wikipedia, and used the online NASA Lambda utility to convert to 2013.0 celestial coordinates (mean equinox and ecliptic of date). I neglect Earth nutation and the aberration of starlight; neither effect amounts to more than a few arcsec. I find the Declination of Arcturus thus to be 19deg06'55".
According to Wikipedia, the geographic latitude of the Cholula pyramid is 19deg03'27"; another online source gives 19deg03'29.8". According to the geodesy teaching website plone.itc.nl/geometrics ("Geometric Aspects of Mapping, 3. Reference Surfaces for Mapping") the plumb line (i.e. perpendicular to "geodetic" surface) commonly deviates from the perpendicular to Earth's reference ellipsoid by up to 50" in mountainous regions, the "deflection of the vertical"; this phenomenon might explain 1' of the 3' error above. Also even with perfect knowledge of Earth's precession, the presumed 3.5' error in Arcturus' Declination could be caused by only a 5% overestimate of Arcturus' Proper Motion in Declination over 2200 yrs (the time since the pyramid's construction began, according to Wikipedia, though maybe there were even older predecessor structures)(2" * 5% * 2200 = 220").
The modern distance and radial velocity estimates for Arcturus, 11pc and 5km/s, imply that Arcturus' motion is so nearly tangential that its Proper Motion never has been more than 0.2% greater than it is now. On the other hand a 1' Declination observation error in 600 years would be 1*60/(600*2) = 5%.
According to Wikipedia, the pyramid is part of a flood myth:
"According to myth, the pyramid was built by a giant named Xelhua of adobe bricks, after he escaped a flood..."
The Cholula pyramid in Mexico is the world's largest manmade structure, more voluminous than the Great Pyramid of Giza, though only half as tall. Today it is covered in soil and vegetation and resembles a hill with a Spanish church on top. Arcturus is the brightest star in the northern hemisphere (though some authorities say Vega, depending on photometric details).
I used VizieR's online Bright Star Catalog for the J2000 coordinates of Arcturus, got the Proper Motion (-1.1"/yr RA & -2.0"/yr Decl) from Wikipedia, and used the online NASA Lambda utility to convert to 2013.0 celestial coordinates (mean equinox and ecliptic of date). I neglect Earth nutation and the aberration of starlight; neither effect amounts to more than a few arcsec. I find the Declination of Arcturus thus to be 19deg06'55".
According to Wikipedia, the geographic latitude of the Cholula pyramid is 19deg03'27"; another online source gives 19deg03'29.8". According to the geodesy teaching website plone.itc.nl/geometrics ("Geometric Aspects of Mapping, 3. Reference Surfaces for Mapping") the plumb line (i.e. perpendicular to "geodetic" surface) commonly deviates from the perpendicular to Earth's reference ellipsoid by up to 50" in mountainous regions, the "deflection of the vertical"; this phenomenon might explain 1' of the 3' error above. Also even with perfect knowledge of Earth's precession, the presumed 3.5' error in Arcturus' Declination could be caused by only a 5% overestimate of Arcturus' Proper Motion in Declination over 2200 yrs (the time since the pyramid's construction began, according to Wikipedia, though maybe there were even older predecessor structures)(2" * 5% * 2200 = 220").
The modern distance and radial velocity estimates for Arcturus, 11pc and 5km/s, imply that Arcturus' motion is so nearly tangential that its Proper Motion never has been more than 0.2% greater than it is now. On the other hand a 1' Declination observation error in 600 years would be 1*60/(600*2) = 5%.
According to Wikipedia, the pyramid is part of a flood myth:
"According to myth, the pyramid was built by a giant named Xelhua of adobe bricks, after he escaped a flood..."
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