Gravity Probe B

North,

You do realize (?) that you are doing the same thing Skarp has been doing? Bothering people with "odd" conclusions and not offering any support for them?

And continuing to not offer support when asked to do so? Once is OK, I guess. But if you can't explain your ideas or make any predictions, what is the point in mentioning them multiple times?

Perhaps you can set an example for Skarp. Got Explanaton?

larry

okay perhaps this will be better,years ago i was not convinced of the rubber sheet explaination of gravity,it was 2D i felt that it was not a complete picture of gravity,i wanted something more 3D.now i had tossed the idea of spin and that this spin odered the space around it,gave it direction and that this action would happen at either pole and converge at the equator of the Sun for example and then it would spread out from there to the planets and that this where for the most part the planets are.now i kept this in the back of my mind for years,could this work?

then watching water go down the drain,perhaps a fluidic point of view which i at first used to discount blackholes, because since a spining mass has action at both poles a singularity could not happen. also reading Halton Arps book also showed throughly that at the center of a galaxy matter was moving OUT from the center not in,now the next question what would cause this counter intuitive action? Spin! it is the spin of the center of the galaxy that is causing the spirals to move out!! it just made sense. if there is another explanation someone has, please let me know.

now, i then saw the short video made from Hubbles photos and in it it showed a few masses with jets. these jets are at the poles of those masses and to my mind the only action that could order these jets in such a way, would be the spining action of the mass it's self,i put forth the question again what else could? if you know please let me know. but for now it makes sense to me.

so then i thought why could we not apply this consequence of spin to all spining masses,why not? now of course there would be varying degrees of the spining actions,what they would be and there consequences i don't know but that is why i tried to find a program that perhaps i could find out,perhaps this road will lead to nothing or something, i would just like the option to find out, if nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity.

now the idea about the spin of masses ordering space,i always viewed the ether,i always thought that it existed just intution. but that this ether did not move unless acted upon and that with what to me i have found since that the Universe seems to have at least some fluidic properties led me to think that the spin of a mass does have a part to play in how things behave out there that it is also possible that it could also play a role in gravity.

i hope thats better if not please let me know.

"Pushing Gravity" is not available in book stores and I don't see it in other places either so I haven't read it. Do you explain force of gravity in that book? I notice force is assumed mostly and only the dynamic effects are modeled. The force is proportional to the square of the mass and that seems to be important somehow although I'm not sure how it is important.

Jim

you can get "Pushing Gravity" and as well for anybody else who maybe interested "Seeing Red" Halton Arp's book on this site,it is where i got my copy of "Pushing Gravity".

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[North]
"i hope thats better if not please let me know."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Not really. You did a good job of summarizing what you've been saying all along. But still no explanations.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[North]
" ... years ago i was not convinced of the rubber sheet explaination of gravity,it was 2D i felt that it was not a complete picture of gravity,i wanted something more 3D.now i had tossed the idea of spin and that this spin odered the space around it,gave it direction and that this action would happen at either pole and converge at the equator of the Sun for example and then it would spread out from there to the planets and that this where for the most part the planets are.now i kept this in the back of my mind for years, ...

could this work?"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[North]
"so then i thought why could we not apply this consequence of spin to all spining masses,why not? now of course there would be varying degrees of the spining actions,what they would be and there consequences i don't know but that is why i tried to find a program that perhaps i could find out,perhaps this road will lead to nothing or something, i would just like the option to find out, if nothing more than to satisfy my curiosity."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The only way you are ever going to find a program to help you explore something like this is to write it yourself. (Or pay someone else to write it. Not recommended.) And in order to do that you are going to have to refine your ideas to the point that you have some rules and some equations.

Something like -

IF SPIN = 0 THEN
Fg = 0
ELSE IF SPIN &lt; 3 THEN
Fg = 0.286 * SPIN
ELSE IF SPIN &lt; 7 THEN
Fg = 0.9947 * SPIN
END

Or whatever.

You could print the results in a table and compare them to observations or experimental results for the force of gravity. If you can't make some numbers for a comparison like this you don't have a theory. There is a lot of iteration in a process like this. You will have to think, plug some numbers into your equations, evaluate the results, and then repeat the process. Many times.

In the end you will most likely conclude that your original idea doesn't hold water. But you will also most likely see a related idea that has some possibilities.

And over time you may zero in on something that actually works. If you keep after it.

LB

North,

Maybe you looking for the answers to gravity in spin is not such a bad approach, but certainly complex. It seems whatever you conclude will lead to a chicken/egg problem. The spin of a body could probable tell us more about the influences of gravity of other bodies than it could in defining gravity itself. But, the fluid dynamics is the right track, I am convinced of this myself. You must keep in mind: scale, volume, age and the neighbors of any body when discussing spin. As for the vorticies, think of a mass so dense it breaks through the rubber sheet and becomes closed..the vortex is gone and gravity is the same in all directions. But, this body and others could break through the shell and create a new vortex on a larger scale..etc. etc.