Gravitational Engineering - The Elysium

Mostly, what you said is right. I'll just concentrate on the corrections or clarifications here.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Larry]: In some of your papers you have likened the elysium to an extended "atmosphere" of elyson particles that are expected to be about 20 orders of magnitude smaller than the smallest bits of stuff we can detect now.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

No, that's the rough difference between elysons and gravitons (the latter being the smaller). Elysons may be near the threshold of detection, and one experiment hints at a possible (indirect) detection.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Due to the limited range of gravitational force, this potential field/elysium atmosphere also has a limited extent.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Elysium, like potential, has an arbitrary additive constant that represents the background level. We call the potential at infinity "zero", but it is actually some unknown large constant. We then measure the increased elysium density (stronger potential) closer to source masses. The potential of all source masses blends into the background level at a distance from the source mass that is modest compared to the 1-2 kiloparsecs mean distance between graviton collisions, which is an unrelated phenomenon.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>This atmosphere extends inward to the center of all massive particles (stars, planets, protons, etc.) and outward to:
* 5 to 10 thousand light years for Sol sized stars
* several dozen light years for Earth sized planets
* several AU for human sized objects
* about a kilometer for proton sized objects<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Same problem. Potential doesn't have that kind of limit. Only gravitons do -- a limit to how far they can fly before colliding with another graviton. Elysons are in contact, like water molecules.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Elysium sounds like a fluid. How is it able to support the transmission of transverse wave energy? (It must interact with itself more strongly than with normal matter. But not strongly enough to form any kind of aggregate like "molecule analogs" or "galaxy analogs".)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Think of water molecules as an analog for elysium. Like water, elysium is too fluid to form lasting structures. But because the molecules are contiguous instead of discrete, when one water molecule pushes forward, it sets off both radial oscillations with other water molecules (a longitudinal wave) and sideways oscillations as it pushes molecules apart to make room for itself (a transverse wave). So elysium waves (e.g., light) are true 3-D waves with both londitudinal and transverse components.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Has anyone attempted to model the properties of the boundary zone for two masses with high relative speeds like Sol and Earth? Elysons within and near a mass should become entrained by that mass, translating and rotating with it.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The background level dominates. There are no "boundaries", and elysium is not that much like an atmosphere, and does not rotate with a star or planet. Instead, matter moves through the elyson medium almost without noticing. Yet the ultra-fast gravitons continually squeeze the elysons near source masses so as to create a density or pressure gradient there. But an instant later, the mass (and every single matter ingredient within it) has moved on, and the density/pressure gradient for each ingredient and for the mass as a whole is recreated at the new location.

Operationally, I lean more towards a pressure gradient than a density gradient because no motion of the elysons is required to establish a pressure gradient (recall that water is an incompressible medium), whereas some movement is needed for a density gradient. However, I have so far been unable to find a treatise or an expert on the experimental effects of pressure alone on the propagation of transverse waves (as in deep-underwater sound or shock waves). I have only logic to support the idea that 3-D waves will propagate slower in high pressure. It seems reasonable that it would take longer to push aside water molecules corresponding to how hard they are being squeezed together.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Sol's elysium atmosphere must contribute to its gravitational force field to some extent.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This is a mostly insignificant effect because of the continuum level. Where it can be seen, it is called the "Nordvedt effect", and has been detected in high-precision lunar laser ranging data at the level of a couple of centimeters.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If we assume that the anomolus acceleration of Pioneer is at least partly due to this effect...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That is impossible. The Pioneer effect has the wrong signature, and applies only to certain spacecraft with RTG generators, but not to other known objects, despite its relatively large size. See our Viewpoint article on this: [url] metaresearch.org/home/viewpoint/meta-in-news.asp [/url] -|Tom|-

Tom,

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote><b>(recall that water is an incompressible medium), </b><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I think I disagree with the above statement. With the water vacuum degassed, it still has some compressiability. I designed and manufactured a custom water jet cutting system which was tested up to 80,000 psi. There were several percentage points of compression.

Likewise I believe that statement would fall apart when placed into the realm of Black Holes, etc. So for most practical purposes it may be considered incompressiable but it indeed may have some compression response to high pressure.


Knowing to believe only half of what
you hear is a sign of intelligence.
Knowing which half to believe can make
you a genius.

You state there is a lunar laser measurement of a few centermeters can you add any details? Pioneer is also unlike other examples in that it is moving above excape velocity-would that any effect on the alnomaly?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Jim]: You state there is a lunar laser measurement of a few centermeters can you add any details?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

What did you want to know? The astronauts left corner reflectors on the Moon, and large Earth telescopes are used to send laser beams there, where they are reflected and return to Earth. The travel times are timed with a precision of many trillionths of a second. These are used to determine the distance of the Moon, its orbit, its rotation (actually wobble), and many other effects.

The "Nortvedt effect" was one of those. It indicated that the Moon's own gravity field (what we call here the extra "elysium" held by the Moon) itself has gravity.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Pioneer is also unlike other examples in that it is moving above excape velocity-would that any effect on the alnomaly?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

No, there is no special significance to a speed being above or below escape velocity in regard to the forces that can affect it. And the Ulysses spacecraft, which has RTG generators but never went beyond Jupiter, also shows the same kind of anomaly. -|Tom|-

What I want to know is about the data location and access. Can that data be readily accessed by a dummy?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Jim]: What I want to know is about the data location and access. Can that data be readily accessed by a dummy?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It can't. All space sciences data is stored at NSSDC. It takes years of study to understand how to analyze data, especially data as high-precision as laser ranging.

Of course, if all you want is to see some data that shows the Moon is roughly 380,000 km away, then you could find that in less than an hour of searching (assuming no previous familiarity with NSSDC). But if you want to analyze the data for the lunar orbit, rotation, Nortvedt effect, etc., that would require knowledge of celestial mechanics, numerical integration, least squares solutions, and many other fields of specialization. That is why it needs years of study. -|Tom|-