Gravitational Engineering - A Basic Transceiver

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Larry]:
* Do you remember how big the room was?
* Could it track you anywhere in the room, even the far corner?
* If you ran or walked fast, could it keep up with you?
* Did you notice if it could track anything smaller, like a chair or a book or a shop vacuum?
* How big was it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It was a large-size laboratory room, maybe 30 feet.

I did not try going to the corner, which was blocked by equipment anyway.

It registered roughly one measure per second, so showed stop action, much like a movie at one frame per second.

The gravimeter was seeing a strong signal, not a marginal one, from the walking around I was doing.

Your last question is a bit like asking "How big is a desktop computer?" Do you include the keyboard, monitor, peripherals? I don't have an accurate recall of the specifics, but several separate components were involved, and I did not ask about the individial functions of each component.

My contacts there are not current, so I have no one of whom to ask questions. If the need were great enough, I could impose on some of my contacts in other departments. -|Tom|-

Like so many of the threads on these fora, this one is truly exasperating. I believe what Burford was driving at was an FTL transceiver concept, but hey, I've been wrong before. Yet this thread has gone absolutely nowhere, exciting as is the prospect of someone's stumbling upon a <b><i>workable</i></b> concept/project. Am I missing something here? How did a transceiver proposal transmogrify to an inane discussion of lab furnishings?

Do I have anything concrete to propose myself, project-wise? No, never having been handier than a hippopotamus. I am, however, a catalyst. Let's have discussions which lead to workable experiments, shall we? The Internet is already light-years past overloaded with sites that perpetually examine a ball of navel lint by Delphic symposia. It seems to me that not enough work is being done in the area of <i><b>quantum tunneling,</b></i> for instance, which is one of the baby steps that has to be taken, most likely, before we get to the first true steps of FTL <b><i>com-mun-i-ca-tion,</i></b> folks, c-o-m-m-u-n-i-c-a-t-i-o-n is the prize our eyes should be focused on, at the very least, in <i><b>this</b></i> humble thread.

Hello Samizdat,

I share your frustration. If Dr. Van Flandern is correct about the true nature of gravity then this simple little experiment is indeed using an FTL channel to send a message.

But (more frustration) there is <b>no way to prove</b> that the communication is occurring at FTL speeds. My research on gravimeters indicates that the current crop of devices has a sample frequency of about one hz. The actual sample period will be somewhat less than that, but still many dozens of milliseconds at the minumum.

In order to prove that the signal is moving FTL with such a machine you would need to be able to send and receive a signal over a distance of several light seconds. Roughly twice the distance to the Moon.

Based on Dr. Van Flandern's description of the "lab furniture" (this is why I asked about it, and why he answered) I'm going to estimate that the maximum range of detection of a gravimeter (for a 75 kilogram target mass) is no more than 20 to 30 meters.

===

But that wasn't the point of my proposed "stunt". The point is to formally demonstrate (formally in the scientific sense) that a static gravitational acceleration (force) field can in fact be modulated, and that those modulations can be detected.

Regardless of the speed of transmission.

With existing equipment. LIGO need not apply (grossly over qualified). [BTW, the silence from that camp is deafening, isn't it?] No gravity waves were actually injured in the making of this film.

Sigh. Even something this mundane is very hard to accomplish. Perhaps someday I'll have the resources to "make it so".

(Resources are the catalyst that we really need ...)

Regards,
LB

This is a reply to: Larry Burford Posted - 21 Oct 2003 : 08:36:13

LB: why not build a circuit designed to make your gravitational (force changes) signal travel, say, a light-second, and take a precise measurement of the <i><b>actual</b></i> elapse? Unless I'm hopelessly mired in the Twilight Zone, any measured time of less than one second (preferably 20 billion times less) for the signal's light-second traversal would be a measurement of FTL phenomena. My idea depends upon my hunch that gravitational force changes have an RF component which might be sent over a fiber optics network. With a dedicated line making a circuit around Earth (roughly 25,000 miles) roughly 7.5 times, we'd have the necessary distance of one light-second. Now, I know the pooh-poohers are jumping to the conclusion that by definition a fiber optics network will transmit at a maximum of light speed. They, however, make the mistake of the strict Relativists, of saying that the speed of light is the maximum speed limit of <b><i>anything</i></b> in the universe. I have no such prejudice that a fiber optics network, for instance, respects, obeys, or is limited by any such "speed limit." The trick is to design the experiment such that the line is rendered free enough of noise and interference to look for our modulated signal. An industrial centrifuge with the object-of-necessary-mass attached, might produce the necessary effects (either at a frequency corresponding to the RPM of the centrifuge <b><i>or some harmonic thereof).</i></b> It is necessary that we design the experiment such that it is <i><b>easily</b></i> repeatable, and subject it
<b><i>beforehand</i></b> to rigorous study, criticism, and revision, the standards of which would not just satisfy, but impress the journal <b><i>"Nature."</i></b>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
Even something this mundane is very hard to accomplish. Perhaps someday I'll have the resources to "make it so".

(Resources are the catalyst that we really need ...)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree, resources are necessary. But by my reading of Tom's view, we would have to be a Type II, perhaps even Type III Civilization, at minimum, to achieve anything approaching FTL communication capability (admittedly, I have a pronounced bias toward this application). Much of my frustration lies in refusing to surrender to some ineluctable "fact" that we won't likely achieve even Type I in my lifetime (which is roughly half spent). This is unacceptable to me.

So I will continue to toss out ideas for general digestion, and see what comes of them. One idea which comes to mind, and if I have stated it elsewhere on these boards, boards be damned, the subject has since died anyway--hopefully, I'm taking a slightly different tack this time, which may lead to progress: it is known (or shall we say that it is averred by certain quarters in science) that living cells communicate over vast distances <i><b>instantaneously</b></i> by means very little understood by physics. Your keywords, should you wish to investigate further, should include "nonlocal phenomena." It is also known that photons can exist (seemingly?) in two places at once, again, over vast distances. Have the limits of these distances been tested? Are there any limits? Do these limits meet or exceed FTL (20 billion TSOL)? Might there be some potential for using evidently unlimited communication speed between distant objects (living cells, for instance--will provide references if your own research proves fruitless) for <b><i>human or human-to-ET communication?</b></i> If not, why not? Be specific, and show your evidence, please.

Editor's note of 10/23/03 05:35 A.M. UTC: yo, Burf, where the Hell are ya? I'm twisting in the wind alone out here! Enrico, your silence is as deafening as the staid, stolid SOL-as-absolute-speed-limit-of-the-universe camp's. Speak up any time, yo!