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Measuring sun's true direction
21 years 11 hours ago #7287
by Jan
Replied by Jan on topic Reply from Jan Vink
Dear Tom,
Why do scientists that oppose FTL argue that "causality" is violated with the Le Sage graviton model. I don't quite understand this argument.
Suppose I'm on Mars and you move a source mass to transmit some message to me. Let this message reach me within a picosecond, say. I'm not receiving anything <b>unless</b> you move your source mass. Isn't this still a causal process?
Why do scientists that oppose FTL argue that "causality" is violated with the Le Sage graviton model. I don't quite understand this argument.
Suppose I'm on Mars and you move a source mass to transmit some message to me. Let this message reach me within a picosecond, say. I'm not receiving anything <b>unless</b> you move your source mass. Isn't this still a causal process?
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21 years 33 minutes ago #7565
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jan</i>
<br />Why do scientists that oppose FTL argue that "causality" is violated with the Le Sage graviton model. I don't quite understand this argument.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">These are scientists who assume that SR is proved correct and that therefore, anything FTL is propagating backwards through time (as required by SR), which can then produce causality violations such as killing your own grandfather before he has children. That is why I usually stress that gravity propagates FTL in forward time, which (as you surmise) cannot violate causality.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Suppose I'm on Mars and you move a source mass to transmit some message to me. Let this message reach me within a picosecond, say. I'm not receiving anything <b>unless</b> you move your source mass. Isn't this still a causal process?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. -|Tom|-
<br />Why do scientists that oppose FTL argue that "causality" is violated with the Le Sage graviton model. I don't quite understand this argument.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">These are scientists who assume that SR is proved correct and that therefore, anything FTL is propagating backwards through time (as required by SR), which can then produce causality violations such as killing your own grandfather before he has children. That is why I usually stress that gravity propagates FTL in forward time, which (as you surmise) cannot violate causality.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Suppose I'm on Mars and you move a source mass to transmit some message to me. Let this message reach me within a picosecond, say. I'm not receiving anything <b>unless</b> you move your source mass. Isn't this still a causal process?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. -|Tom|-
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