CBR has the answer

There is no way you can bring religion into the discussion.

I like the way most of you people think. It is closer to reality and common sense.

I was asked the question last week. Where did life come from.

I'm an evolusionist and can explain how life evolved and offer several options as to where life started on earth.

The more I think of it. Life in the universe has always being here or there.

Knowing that the Universe is endless and is recylic puts life in the same picture frame.

Happy New Year

Harry

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Harry</i>
<br />Why did the Big Bang take off in such a way that most comologists were taken in by the theory. Many scientists still hang their hats on it. Is there something that I'm missing in its logic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Lemaitre, who did the original formulation, was a Catholic and a Jesuit priest. It seems clear his motivation was religious. Even today, Steven Hawking reminds us in his best seller "A brief history of time" that the Big Bang is the only cosmology approved by the Catholic pope.

I recently presented my paper, "The top 50 problems with the Big Bang", to a meeting of the Natural Philosophy Alliance. The paper is devastiting to the Big Bang, showing that it does not have a single leg left to stand on, not even the basic ideas that motivated it -- universal expansion (which does not exist) and the microwave radiation as a fireball remnant (it is actually the minimum temperature of matter in space, not a remnant of anything). Afterwards, an ad hoc group of Catholics approached me about sending a letter to the Vatican to caution the pope against over-investment in the Big Bang, lest we have another Galileo incident.

It seems clear that one major reason for BB popularity is that it supports the belief systems of Catholics, fundamentalists, and other religious groups. If there was a Big Bang, then there must be a God. So for those who believe in God, supporting BB would be a natural. -|Tom|-
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I read The Brief History Of Time as a kid and as i look back on it i felt uncomfortable with the idea that the Universe came out of an infinitely dense state. I similarly felt uncomfortable with the concept of the singularity in a black hole. The Big Bangers have always been mixing infinities and finities with gusto which shows that they've always been mathematicians, not physicists, at heart. I think most people intuitively realize that infinities and finities don't mix
in the physical world.

Harry, yours is a very thought provoking post, short but to the point.<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Harry</i>
<br />There is no way you can bring religion into the discussion.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree, I detest discussing religion but I do enjoy theology.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I like the way most of you people think. It is closer to reality and common sense.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Reality and common sense! To soon becoming a lost art I fear.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I was asked the question last week. Where did life come from.
I'm an evolusionist and can explain how life evolved and offer several options as to where life started on earth.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I can and do accept your explanation of how life evolves and I trust that at least one of those options is how life started here on earth. However, my question would be; how did life originate in the universe?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The more I think of it. Life in the universe has always being here or there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

And that answers that question, at least from your point of view, life has always been here or there.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Knowing that the Universe is endless and is recylic puts life in the same picture frame.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You <b>know</b> the universe is endless or you <b>conclude</b> the universe is endless? I however, do not konw or conclude whether the universe, with life, was created or has alway existed, I have insufficent data. So I am left with the thought provoking question; Of the two posibilities, which is closest to reality using commonsense? 1.)Life and the universe was created or 2.) Life and the universe has just always existed.

Thank you for a very provocative Post, and a Happy new year to you also.
thebobgy

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thebobgy</i>
I however, do not konw or conclude whether the universe, with life, was created or has alway existed
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Maybe reading this paper: [url] www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/DidTheUniverseHaveABeginning.asp [/url]
will help you conclude the Universe has always existed

Julio

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thebobgy</i>
<br />I however, do not konw or conclude whether the universe, with life, was created or has alway existed, I have insufficent data.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Whether the universe is much older than the Big Bang, or not, is a question for data. Whether the universe had an origin or always existed is not one that can be answered with data. It can only be addressed with logic, as in metaresearch.org/cosmology/PhysicsHasItsPrinciples.asp

In the field that we call "deep reality physics", we agree to describe the origin and nature of everything without invoking miracles for as long as that remains possible. Invoking a miracle defies explanation and predictability and terminates further inquiry, making it unscientific. Creation <i>ex nihilo</i> is a miracle.

Fortunately, there is a logical alternative to creation <i>ex nihilo</i>, which is that the universe has existed forever. A corollary is that nothing is ever created or destroyed, but merely changes form. So far, we have no reason to think otherwise. -|Tom|-

All of this comes together as recycling. Stuff goes from atoms to photons and back to atoms again and again. The hydrogen atom therefore is not any more stable than gold or silicon. The proton decays. Once this fact is established the fusion model is displaced and all the bogus bits and pieces are gone in a puff of smoke.